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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ve Been Waiting For This For Decades</title>
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	<description>Bruce Garrett's Weblog.  Essays and musings on my life and my world.</description>
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		<title>By: The Story So Far&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Define Hell And Give Three Examples</title>
		<link>http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272/comment-page-1#comment-57712</link>
		<dc:creator>The Story So Far&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Define Hell And Give Three Examples</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272#comment-57712</guid>
		<description>[...] This isn&#039;t just posturing, this man really believes in Hell, Capital &#039;H&#039;.&#160; Tavdy pointed me to this follow-up post over at John Shore&#039;s blog in the comments to This Post.&#160; This man is really struggling between his love for his gay friends and what he honestly believes about God and for once I can look at this and believe it&#039;s real and not some sort of empty posturing and that&#039;s entirely because you can see he really does view gay people as human beings and not a bunch of faceless scarecrows with the word SODOMITE pinned on them.&#160; What decent person could accept entry into paradise, knowing that so many other good-hearted, decent, loving people are going to burn for eternity simply for loving someone of their own sex, and being loved by them?&#160; But then...what kind of person even conceives of such a thing to begin with?&#160; God didn&#039;t invent Hell.&#160; Human beings did.&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This isn&#8217;t just posturing, this man really believes in Hell, Capital &#8216;H&#8217;.&nbsp; Tavdy pointed me to this follow-up post over at John Shore&#8217;s blog in the comments to This Post.&nbsp; This man is really struggling between his love for his gay friends and what he honestly believes about God and for once I can look at this and believe it&#8217;s real and not some sort of empty posturing and that&#8217;s entirely because you can see he really does view gay people as human beings and not a bunch of faceless scarecrows with the word SODOMITE pinned on them.&nbsp; What decent person could accept entry into paradise, knowing that so many other good-hearted, decent, loving people are going to burn for eternity simply for loving someone of their own sex, and being loved by them?&nbsp; But then&#8230;what kind of person even conceives of such a thing to begin with?&nbsp; God didn&#8217;t invent Hell.&nbsp; Human beings did.&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272/comment-page-1#comment-57692</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272#comment-57692</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow...that&#039;s just...amazing.&#160; He must be really struggling with this.&#160; I really feel for him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I count my blessings.&#160; I could have easily grown up to be a biblical literalist considering the household I grew up in, and ended up...I dunno...in and out of Ex-Gay programs maybe, and generally hating myself and who knows what else.&#160; But somehow I didn&#039;t.&#160; I fell in love with the stars at an early age and began devouring books on astronomy and from there to nature and science and ever since my thinking about God and my relationship to my creator has always been grounded in what I saw in nature and my theology such as it is, goes along the lines of &quot;When the bird and the bird book disagree, believe the bird.&quot;&#160; I never took the bible literally and have always felt free in conscience and spirit to embrace the wisdom I see in it and discard what makes no sense.&#160; &lt;em&gt;Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live&lt;/em&gt;...right...whatever...&#160;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I can&#039;t point to any moment in my life where I made a conscious decision to reject the idea that the bible is the &lt;em&gt;Literal&lt;/em&gt; word of God.&#160; I had this gut level understanding ever since I can remember walking outside at night and looking up at the stars that the literal word is up there in the dazzling night sky and there on the ground under my feet and the birds in the trees and the scent of the blossoms and there in the light of the rising sun.&#160; So whenever I read the bible I always had this sense that I was reading how people understood God to be, but not necessarily how God was, and whenever I read anything that was ugly or stupid or mean I just reckoned that had nothing do to with God and just glossed over it.&#160; God made the bird.&#160; Humans write the bird books and humans are not infallible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe there is a life after death...I have no idea.&#160; But the idea of Hell, like the idea of original sin, is cheap and petty and ugly and completely unworthy of that which could create space and time, let alone the birds and the bees out of nothing.&#160; Humans have an almost bottomless capacity to hate.&#160; I simply cannot believe that of anything capable of creating a soul.&#160; So I don&#039;t believe in hell.&#160; But I have seen a small portion of the hell humans can make for each other and that has convinced me that Jesus was absolutely right about this: We have to love one another.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;that&#8217;s just&#8230;amazing.&nbsp; He must be really struggling with this.&nbsp; I really feel for him.
</p>
<p>I count my blessings.&nbsp; I could have easily grown up to be a biblical literalist considering the household I grew up in, and ended up&#8230;I dunno&#8230;in and out of Ex-Gay programs maybe, and generally hating myself and who knows what else.&nbsp; But somehow I didn&#8217;t.&nbsp; I fell in love with the stars at an early age and began devouring books on astronomy and from there to nature and science and ever since my thinking about God and my relationship to my creator has always been grounded in what I saw in nature and my theology such as it is, goes along the lines of &quot;When the bird and the bird book disagree, believe the bird.&quot;&nbsp; I never took the bible literally and have always felt free in conscience and spirit to embrace the wisdom I see in it and discard what makes no sense.&nbsp; <em>Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live</em>&#8230;right&#8230;whatever&#8230;&nbsp;</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t point to any moment in my life where I made a conscious decision to reject the idea that the bible is the <em>Literal</em> word of God.&nbsp; I had this gut level understanding ever since I can remember walking outside at night and looking up at the stars that the literal word is up there in the dazzling night sky and there on the ground under my feet and the birds in the trees and the scent of the blossoms and there in the light of the rising sun.&nbsp; So whenever I read the bible I always had this sense that I was reading how people understood God to be, but not necessarily how God was, and whenever I read anything that was ugly or stupid or mean I just reckoned that had nothing do to with God and just glossed over it.&nbsp; God made the bird.&nbsp; Humans write the bird books and humans are not infallible.
</p>
<p>Maybe there is a life after death&#8230;I have no idea.&nbsp; But the idea of Hell, like the idea of original sin, is cheap and petty and ugly and completely unworthy of that which could create space and time, let alone the birds and the bees out of nothing.&nbsp; Humans have an almost bottomless capacity to hate.&nbsp; I simply cannot believe that of anything capable of creating a soul.&nbsp; So I don&#8217;t believe in hell.&nbsp; But I have seen a small portion of the hell humans can make for each other and that has convinced me that Jesus was absolutely right about this: We have to love one another.</p>
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		<title>By: Tavdy</title>
		<link>http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272/comment-page-1#comment-57669</link>
		<dc:creator>Tavdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brucegarrett.com/brucelog/1272#comment-57669</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think this comment from his next blog entry is even more interesting: &lt;em&gt;If my gay friends, whom my life experience tells me can no sooner stop being gay than&#160;I can stop being straight,&#160;have to go to hell after they die, then I&#8217;m going with them. Too many gays and lesbians have been too good to me in this life for me to leave them behind in the next. I won&#8217;t do it.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a heterosexual Christian who openly admits that, on the basis of scripture, he considers homosexuality to be sinful -and yet he&#039;d rather spend eternity in Hell with us than eternity in Heaven without us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this comment from his next blog entry is even more interesting: <em>If my gay friends, whom my life experience tells me can no sooner stop being gay than&nbsp;I can stop being straight,&nbsp;have to go to hell after they die, then I&rsquo;m going with them. Too many gays and lesbians have been too good to me in this life for me to leave them behind in the next. I won&rsquo;t do it.</em></p>
<p>This is a heterosexual Christian who openly admits that, on the basis of scripture, he considers homosexuality to be sinful -and yet he&#8217;d rather spend eternity in Hell with us than eternity in Heaven without us.</p>
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